I just got my NorCal PHRF certificate and it says that my stock one design Olson 30 is 99 but the down wind rating is 69. I would not be interested in going with a rating of 69 so I looked to the NOR for help on ratings. The NOR says that PCR ratings will be used but no description of PCR is provided. Will my PCR rating be set in concrete before I have to pony up my entry fee?
Frank Ross, Prankster
P.S. I rate 96, 96, 96 in SoCal
I think it's not really relevant that the downwind number is different that the other number. It's apples and oranges.
What I mean is that to understand what the difference is between the old PHRF rating and the new Downwind rating, the real question is how did other boats fare? Did you gain or lose on the downwind number as compared to other boats?
It doesn't matter whether that number is 69 or 169. It only matters what the delta is with the fleet.
It looks like (unlike YRA) SoCal normalized their numbers so that they look the same. Or does an Olson 30 sail exactly the same speed upwind as down?
I think your concern stems from an assumption that I imagine to be mistaken. My understanding is that, while there are some refinements from the straight PCR formula, the concept here is the same: Come up with numbers that fairly represent boat-to-boat comparisons in primarily downwind racing.
here is the link to the formula, I have yet to compare this to my "downwind rating."
I hope we will get more info on this soon (maybe the next prep seminar?). We are rated 39 downwind vs our 78 "regular" rating. I can find no explanation of the significance or purpose of this downwind rating on the PHRF section of the YRA website.
I want to second what Paul (Valis) said. It is way to early to panic. The entire PHRF fleet shifted with the new downwind ratings, and most boats are faster downwind than they are around the buoys. Certainly that is true of an Olson 30. Please wait to see what your competitors rate.
The previous PCR formulas were designed to be "feel good" adjustments. That is to say that fast downwind boats got no rating change; while heavy boats got a positive rating adjustment. The new downwind ratings go in the opposite, more logical direction: fast downwind boats rate faster. However under a TOD scoring system the time delta to your competitors is the only thing that affects results.
Let me add that the PHRF database has over 4000 boats and it has been a monumental undertaking to get the downwind ratings implemented. The PHRF board will be taking a second, closer look at all boats entered for the Pacific Cup. The goal of the whole enterprise is the fairest possible ratings for all types of boats.
Jim Antrim (Pacific Cup technical chairman and PHRF board member)
Perhaps "shift" was a poor choice of words. A boat's potential performance in a downwind race has little to do with it's potential around the buoys. The downwind ratings are not related to the buoy ratings at all. It is a new starting point and any similarity of downwind ratings to buoy ratings is accidental. There is no smoke and mirrors. The only larger motive is fair racing.
The first certificates with downwind ratings were issued one week ago today. You have your rating. Other Pacific Cup entrants will get theirs when they renew or apply. I don't know when the YRA office will get fleet ratings posted; but yes, I expect you will have your answer before your entry is due.
Frank, in past races the PCR was an adjustment to the PHRF, based on boat dimensions, displacement, etc. My understanding is that the 2010 PCR rating may be based on the PHRF downwind rating (with an adjustment), but the numbers are still being crunched. The previous PCR algorithm may still be available in the PacCup archives, but it's going to be changing in any case.
For what it's worth, my heavy, non-surfing, Pacific Seacraft 44 has a PHRF rating of 126, and a downwind rating of 81. I don't know if that makes you feel better or worse about your downwind rating, but it may be too early to panic.
(I'm not a Pac Cup spokesperson, and I am looking forward to seeing the new ratings)
-Paul, VALIS
Frank,
Don't know you, but surely hope you choose to compete. Yes, we all want to do well and clearly ones rating plays a role, but to base your decision heavily on rating would possibly be missing the point of completing in an event of this scale.
I promise I understand your concerns, but there is way more to it all than the rating.
As far as being disadvantaged as a double hander - I have the opposite view, but I'm a tad bit crazy.
Joby Easton
Raindrop
Ok, I retract everything said other than that I hope Frank will race, but now I'm panicking too.
My PHRF is 132 and my down wind is 93.
I sailed one race in the boat and happened to do well. Feels a bit penalizing. oh well I will eat my own words and say it's about the event right?
Joby Easton
Raindrop
Frank,
I've got nothing useful to contribute at this point, but I do have a comment. You said:
Fast boats are fast because they are prepaired well and sailed well.
Of course, they are also fast because they are designed to be fast, and because the conditions favor them. One some days VALIS can beat a well-sailed Cal 40. On others we don't stand a chance -- it depends on the conditions. As I understand it, the intention of the PCR rating is to try and reach a compromise that gives everyone a chance to do well in the "typical" conditions of a Hawaii race. I'm going to assume, and perhaps I'm being naive, that the PCR will be a good-faith effort.
With respect to adjusting the ratings, depending on how this is done it may very well make a difference in the final scoring.
All of which is easy for me to say, since VALIS isn't a particularly racy boat, and my goal to to just do better than I did last time. You and Jim have much more experience than do I when it comes to ratings and racing, and probably more at stake, so I offer my humble observations with all humility. (honestly!)
Regards,
Paul
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The more you explain it Jim, the panickier I get. What is the point of shifting the entire fleet other than trying to distract attention from some larger motive? That is a rhetorical question buy the way. I was on the PHRF board (in SoCal) so I can recognize smoke and mirrors when I see them.
I only have one question; will I know what my rating (and everybody elses since the whole fleet shifted*) is before I have to pay the entry fee?
That seems like a reasonable question to me and the fact that the answer is not forthcomming is worrisome.
Frank Ross, Prankster
* To no apparent purpose since as you say the only thing that matters is the time you owe your competitors.